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larrynachos
I make games and music sometimes
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Larry "Construct 3" Nachos @larrynachos

Age 26, Male

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Minnesota

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I don't start drama, I finish it

Posted by larrynachos - November 7th, 2023


My response to Costume Clash is down because Larrynachos is a dick.


THIS is why I don't collaborate with strangers lol.


Very convenient for her that she didn't keep the chat logs. It's almost as if I was a completely reasonable human being and she spun out on me and she knows it. I couldn't screenshot in time but I'm pretty sure she called me a libtard before she gave me the boot lol.


You’re darned right I removed the game. I would have unpublished the game entirely to get it off the front page, except she felt the need to be the owner of the project. As to why I did it, after our exchange on discord (see below) I no longer felt she deserved to have her name on a project she had little to no involvement in besides recruiting myself and the artists. Contrary to her “director” credit, she brought forth very few ideas, insights, or feedback for the duration of development, only popping her head into the discord to remind us that she was a part of this project. Splenectomy gets full credit for the initial idea of a battler with costume-based abilities, and I took that idea and ran with it. We’d had basically the whole concept drafted overnight with zero input from Theta. She has no right to claim ownership of the project or reupload it. It pains me to see the artists getting caught in the crossfire, and I’m more than happy to re-release the game with the members who actually contributed. Or not, tbh this project was a fun personal challenge and all the knowledge and experience I’ve acquired will stay with me regardless of what happens to the game.


Discord drama:


I awoke to messages from Theta in the Costume Clash discord, who expressed her concerns about my responses to the reviews. She said I was too harsh. Something about "you should strive to make something you're proud of instead of chasing personal glory"? There were other things she said I can’t recall, basically her implying that I'm somehow bullying these users because I'm incapable of handling criticism, and that it's better to take the high road.


I went through the reviews to see where I'd gotten too aggressive, But there were only 3 that could be considered rude, and if you look at them I think it's a pretty flimsy argument.


Review 1


Review 2


Review 3


Still half asleep, my initial response was an attempt to clarify what she was talking about, during this I reiterated that for each critical costume clash review, I explained the bug that was occurring (there was a particularly nasty bug I couldn't quite squash that was reliably triggered on a user's first playthrough due to how I managed the unlocks system), and for other issues I asked them to elaborate, and in most cases I pushed updates to fix the bugs.


Then after waking up fully and having another look at the messages and my review responses, I pointed out the paradoxical nature of her statements, with her saying I should make something I’m proud of but I’m not allowed to defend it from criticism. Why would I not defend something I’m proud of? I stated that I have just as much a right to criticize them as they have to criticize me, and restated that I don’t believe I overstepped in any of my responses. 


She interpreted my response as an attack and got more and more aggressive in her replies, and with each message it seemed to indicate that she either didn’t or chose not to understand my initial response.


I can’t remember much from the tail end of the conversation, at some point she told me I was being an asshole, I again reiterated that I didn’t believe I’d behaved rudely then she began to ask me stuff like “who gets to decide what is rude, you? You’re the grand arbiter in this situation?”. I said that a professional demeanor is neither enforced nor expected in Newgrounds, which she misinterpreted as “professionals don’t use newgrounds”. She asked me if “people like me were the reason why XXXX left” (I don’t remember the name). She quickly began to dig the trenches of a narrative while placing herself atop some sort of intellectual pedestal, escalating from “your responses were rude” to “you’re a delusional narcissist who lashes out at anyone who dares criticize your content” (read this in the facetious psychicpebbles voice lol).


(Now she's apparently trying to frame me as some sort of alt-right wannabe alpha male??? Why's she bringing up the fact that I'm white?)


At one point, she LITERALLY said “I’m trying to psychoanalyze you to figure out *why people like you think like that*” to which, beginning to lose my temper, I called her an “overzealous psych major” (I know, it’s basically the N word). She continued to rage on, trying to educate ME on how I think. Her responses seemed to completely disregard everything I’d been saying, so I told her to scroll up and re-read what I’d written, to which she responded by calling me a libtard and kicking me from the channel. So I then removed the latest build from the project.


There’s a lot more nuance to this discussion that’s being missed, but unfortunately she wiped the chat logs from discord so there’s little hope for my full vindication.


But at the end of the day, none of this matters. The world turns, unchanged. I don’t anticipate this “drama” escalating any further. I’ve said my piece, and until she presents the full context in the form of complete, unedited screenshots, it’s ALL hearsay, even what I’ve written here today.


I implore you to make your own informed decisions regarding these events. Actually, fuck that. I implore you to not give a shit and continue living your life without expending energy on such a superfluous occurrence. Life’s too short. Drink some water, go outside, and ask yourself how you’re going to contribute to the universe today.


And to Theta, since I'm blocked: Screw you for making me take an undeserved chunk out of the precious time I have on this earth to respond to your self-righteous wittering. You can front like you're an innocent person who's nothing but enthusiastic and supportive, but today you revealed your true self to me. I hope you take some time to look inward and reflect on who you are vs who you pretend to be, and strive to be a kind person genuinely, not just when it benefits you.


I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'm more than grateful for the people who choose to support me and engage with my content, but in the grand scheme of things I don't really care about public perception. I'm imperfect and so is my art and I won't pretend otherwise, but while I'm in a perpetual cycle of learning and self improvement, I'm under no obligation to conform to your standards or expectations, and I'm well within my rights to respond as I see fit.


Christ, I'm over here spending my day off writing a 5 paragraph essay like I just got outed as a groomer or something when I should be playing minecraft with my mom right now.


I feel bad for wasting a front page post on this, so here's a link to the news post that got pushed off the front page when I posted mine. It's a neat collab for artists with a theme based on those little plastic capsule figures from our childhood!


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Comments

So, what are you going to do differently next time you consider collaborating with someone?

Dunno tbh. I don't actually think this will impact my decisions regarding future collaborative prospects. I just think looking back, I jumped into this project without knowing any of the people involved. Which is what I wanted, you know? I felt like I was "using" my usual pixel art friends a little too often and wanted to branch out and meet new people, make new connections and absorb new ideas and perspectives

i've read way worse review responses where creators (some pretty big even) openly mock any criticism they receive and just act like assholes to even valid reviews they get
the review responses for costume clash are so neutral lol

Not to say I haven't had issues in the past with not handling criticism well. I've been making stuff for NG since I was a teenager. Scroll through my old forum posts and review responses and you'll certainly find an abundance of evidence pertaining to cringe-inducing, petty, childish behavior. It's all part of the process of growth.

But in this instance, I have no idea where she's coming from. I was a bit blunt, but I'm allowed to be? The game had issues, but I addressed those issues in the description. Nothing I said should have catalyzed such an extreme response on her part.

Wait, those were actually the reviews they saw as rude and mocking? I remember responding to the initial post by Theta (Hell, just got a response from them as I was writing this) mainly being sad about not being able to play the game, but also with a question about the reviews since I thought, "These aren't really that rude or mocking," with me just thinking that maybe there was replies deleted. I think the only blunt things about those replies is how straight to the point you wanna know their criticism is and how to fix the things they had a problem with.
Also, going back to Theta's post, they added to a response that I think is really funny, "In reality, I’m just flying by the seat of my pants and didn’t realize I needed to have evidence against him until he brought the drama to the front page of Newgrounds itself." The fuck you mean you didn't think you need evidence against someone you wanna prove is terrible?

her response to your comment was just the previous response copied and pasted???

@larrynachos The weirdest part about that is the person below me's response on Theta's post was originally responding to me, but going back it was instead directed to them and I got my new response from Theta later.

I stand for my buddy larry, these bitches crazy.
Having worked with larry for over a year, I have not ONCE seen bad behaviour to any of our colleagues coming from him.
From my perspective all 3 reviews were answered in very compreensive manner.

Mucho texto

I know, reading is difficult when you're chronically on twitter and discord huh?

Lmaooooo is that your best screenshot? Get outta here you cashew

This kinda reminds me of Enchanted Portals. The creators blocked the people who talked smack about the game on twitter.

But I didn't block anyone so that's a false equivalency

@Dungeonation so?

Alas it seems OP was being a goon, continue onward with your endeavors brave Larry.... -Dark Avenger

Not gonna dip my toes into this because it seems like pretty pointless drama (and I'm not saying that to be insensitive to anyone, so hopefully it's not taken that way), but speaking purely as a someone who goes through older media on this site daily - do you still *have* the game? Not that you need to reupload it on here, I understand not wanting it to get attention or wanting it frontpaged, but it's kinda rough to me seeing a game getting taken down without being archived in any way lol.

The project file still exists, I could export at any time but I'd need to go in and change the medals and scoreboards.

You're absolutely right that this is pointless drama, and what's kinda gross is that I've gotten more engagement from this post than from costume clash itself.

@larrynachos I meant Theta.

I'm sorry, but your responses are kind of rude and this whole essay is kind of sad.

People aren't going to feel like their comments are taken seriously if you're ending every other sentence with "lol". People don't like being moralized at ("patience is a virtue"? Wow cringe). People don't have to play your free games on Newgrounds and if they're being treated with disrespect, they're going to leave the site because they don't feel valued. On one hand, yes, you get to decide who is your audience, but on the other hand how you behave affects the entire site.

I don't see evidence here of the altercation over Discord. I won't comment on that. But you seem extremely defensive in this entire essay over what seems to be just a reaction of someone telling you to not be so rude. You're dragging a smaller user down with (you said it) hearsay and then have the gall to act like you're taking the moral high ground by telling people to go outside and ignore something you shone a light on. You don't care how the public views you but you make a whole damn essay about something I wouldn't have known about if you just didn't post?

If you find a criticism to be invalid or pointless, don't respond to it (or flag it if you're feeling particularly spicy). Simple as.

I'm sorry how things turned out. It makes me sad to see people fighting on Newgrounds when this is one of the last places where people can say and do and make whatever they want. The simple fact is not everyone here will get along and many people will butt heads. You don't *have* to like everyone but making other people suffer is not how you solve a problem. It just makes you look kind of petulant.

Theta said the same thing about reporting reviews lmao. You are a ridiculously fragile individual if you felt those reviews warranted REPORTING.

@larrynachos Honestly it's more constructive than taking offense at possibly a literal child saying something you don't like and having a public conniption fit. You can flag it and say in the message "I just did this to make myself feel better because my feewings were hurted." The admins will see it, laugh, and move onto the next report. It's a win-win. You don't act rude toward your players and you get to blow off steam without looking like a nerd to us bystanders.

You say I'm dragging down a smaller user, but where in my post did I insult or attack her? I never called her stupid or insecure. She literally is making stuff up, but of course I can't prove it because she deleted the evidence. All I've done is explained "my side" of the story. All she wants to do is spout trump-esque accusations about what a nasty person I am.

I never "lashed out" at her, but take a few moments and use your eyes and brain to read what she's saying about me lol. Her response to your comment on her blog was basically "he's a white wannabe alpha male who watches andrew tate videos". She doesn't know anything about me, yet she wants to insinuate all this shit. Spinning the threads to a narrative and you refuse to see it cause you're too busy trying to be "nice"

@larrynachos I don't like what she said and that's why I'm not responding to it (ETA: Actually, I changed my mind and told her it was inappropriate.). I don't have to make things up to see both of you need to go separate ways. But don't make other people suffer in the process of your divorce.

Did you give them permission to reupload the game? it looks like they went ahead and put it back up. not sure if thats even allowed given the site rules.... -Dark Avenger

The build they uploaded doesn't work. Sounds like they want to rebuild it from scratch, which I wouldn't bother me

damn i cant think of much to say but damn also I need more info on the "newgrounds circlejerk"
because wtf do they mean and whos in it???????

The game is back up on their account, so if you legitimately had your hands in the source code you can simply flag the submission and the moderation team will deal with it.

It seems bizarrely comical to me she claimed "he lashed at me it means the game is mine now". That's not how copyright works.

They uploaded a build pulled from the wayback machine, and it doesn't work. If Theta wants to rebuild the game from scratch she has the right to. I'd considered reuploading the game but none of the project artists reached out to me with their perspective on the matter so I don't feel comfortable uploading something they worked on without their consent.

The game isn't the issue for me though, it's her aggressive and unsubstantiated attacks on my character. It's wild to me how a person can just make stuff up about someone and people just believe it because she blabs the loudest. What happened to critical thinking?

@larrynachos People babble about all sorts of reasons, but rights are rights and immutable. Maybe it was a mistake to let this opportunist asinine person get such foothold in a collaboration but it doesn't change that it's your work even if they recovered a half-baked snapshot. If they haven't actually contributed to the piece they haven't the right.

It's annoying, and taken it's a non-profit work it may indeed be a waste of time, but the artists that worked on it also deserve word on what happens to the source file because it's their assets in the work too; currently a broken game shows up on their submissions. If you've removed the game without their blessing then it was a screw up on your part.

I didn't consult anyone before taking it down, maybe that was a mistake but I'll stand by it because it was meant to be a temporary measure. I really wish I had screenshots of our exchange on discord, if people saw what I said and how she responded it would clear a lot of this up. I wasn't going to let myself be associated with her after seeing what she's really like, and my choices were to take the game down, or remove myself from the project page thereby relinquishing credit for my work.

I'm tired of Theta trying to make it seem as if people are "suffering" because of my decision though. No blood, sweat, or tears were shed during development. None of the people who played the game are "heartbroken" by it's disappearance. It didn't even exist two months ago, it's a little game jam project not someone's magnum opus.

@larrynachos Again, rights don't change because of feelings or because a work was small. If you cannot measure ownership to the point you effectively pull work other artists worked on over your own feelings, then you messed up.

They chose to collab with you, then you pulled the plug because you were bothered by a dumb person who apparently hadn't even contributed. What do you think the moral of the story is?

People keep trying to tell me that the moral of the story is to ignore dummies and pretend like everything is fine, but I disagree. If you placate dummies, you validate and reinforce their dumbfuckery.

How would you have reacted to this situation, in either of our shoes? I don't want to speculate, but I worry how things would have gone had I done nothing, or retaliated with a less severe action like making a news post about it.

At the end of the day, I own the rights to the code. I didn't get paid or sign a contract. If i want to pull my code, I can. If it makes me look bad, fine. I don't own the art, which is why I won't reupload without the artist's consent and why I'm not doing anything to prevent them from remaking it.

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